This photo is one of the two brake 3rd 6-wheel carriages which formed part of the Colchester breakdown train from 1947 until c1956.

The LNER number is clear at the near end.

Any thoughts as to carriage livery,  Stratford brown, or could I get away with LNER blue?


 

Carriage Brown, I should have thought, since the standard insignia for revenue-earning stock is unlikely to have been applied after a repaint for departmental service.  Just to muddy the waters, on some photos of this vehicle the panels on which the departmental lettering has been added (ie the bottom corners) appear to be a different shade from the rest of the carriage.

(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)


Darryl Tooley

Hi Darryl

Thank you for your comments and photo and "unfortunately" (!) I guess its paint the breakdown train in "grotty brown"!

I knew Dennis Seabrook (and Leo Gibbs) during my time as a member of the South East Essex Railway Society, they and other members of SEERS, the late Peter Paton, Ken Butcher etc were all very knowledgeable and just wish I had asked more questions! We had some interesting times looking at their photographs, many prints being stuck to card sheets with photo captions. I have one such card, a duplicate of the GER tram carriage at Stratford.

I'm guessing the clerestory carriage to the left in the photo is 320147 the ex GCR 50ft clerestory, LNER 583 built in 1904, dating the photo to post c1955 and presumably crane match truck 961657 or 961658! Begs the question about the location of the crane and a photo of the crane at Stratford c1956 has it with the match truck. Were there two match trucks?

John Watling provided me with the following details of the breakdown trains at Colchester:

LNER Period
• Tool Van 961515 ex GE 264 Diagram 219 formerly EX16, built 2/1886, converted 12/1928, withdrawn 11/1942
• Mess and Tool Van 961520 ex GE 718, LNER 6460, Diagram 518, built 9/1896, converted 2/1940, withdrawn c. 1945.

Early BR Period
• 961515 Tool Van ex LD&ECR (GCR) 51842 6-wheel 34’ brake third, built Ashbury 1896, converted 10/1945, withdrawn 8/11/1958. (subject of Dennis photo)
• 961520 GER 6-wheel Mess and Packing Van ex GE 945 brake third 62332, Diagram 533, converted 3/1947, no withdrawal date. (which I'm at a point to paint from a Dan Pinnock kit)
• 961604 Sheldon Mk2 swan neck 15ton crane to Colchester 11/1947 (I have a D&S kit but Oxford Rail are producing a rtr model). Apparently the GNR crane was rarely used from the mid 1940's onwards and given the impression it was in poor condition and reluctant to steam. It went during 1955, or perhaps a little earlier and to find it at Stratford four or five years later was most surprising but it disappeared soon after. There are photos of the crane at Stratford dated 20 December 1959. 
• 961658 GER ex double bolster (Brian Stevens Colchester book has photo which shows vehicle as 961657 a GER Diagram 17 high sided wagon!?)

Post c1955
After the steam crane had gone two carriages appeared:
• 320380, a former GER 10 compartment suburban 3rd, LNER 60396
• 320147 an ex GCR 50ft clerestory, LNER 583 built in 1904.

Paul

Here is 320147.  As with the previous photo, the notes on the backing card say 'Colchester 23/9/56'.



(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)


Darryl Tooley

Darryl

Thank you for posting the photo, its one I've not seen before. There are a couple of photos of the clerestory, but what is interesting is the match truck. This is the photo of the match truck published in Brian Stevens book.



What is a mystery to me is this photo. It is at Colchester and the carriage is on the crane road and I always assumed it was one of the breakdown carriages, but it doesn't appear to fit any of John's descriptions.

 

And here is 961658, on the scrap road at Stratford in March 1957.  Can't help with the mystery carriage, I'm afraid.
 
(Dennis Seabrook Collection/LNER Society)

Darryl Tooley

Hi Darryl

Thank you for the photo, which is a clearer view than the one I have taken at Stratford, so much so you can read the crane runner number, 961658 and a different wagon to that in the photos above which is numbered 961657, problem solved, two wagons!

So I now have two carriages and two wagons to model!

I have been "trying" to keep my reference material for my 4mm/OO gauge Colchester c1955 model railway in a "document! And just for the record here are my notes in respect of the Colchester breakdown train.



As usual there are more questions than answers, particularly the carriage liveries, but below are two black and white photographs run through Colorize app!